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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting 2020-09-08 · wg-traits · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/index.html">wg-traits</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html">meeting 2020-09-08</a></h3>

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<a name="209436300"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436300" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436300">(Sep 08 2020 at 19:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hi <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="692">@WG-traits</span></p>



<a name="209436303"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436303" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436303">(Sep 08 2020 at 19:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>meeting in 1 minute</p>



<a name="209436414"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436414" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mark Drobnak <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436414">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I figured out why I missed the last meeting. No notification set in google calendar <span aria-label="face palm" class="emoji emoji-1f926" role="img" title="face palm">:face_palm:</span></p>



<a name="209436501"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436501" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436501">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Howdy</p>



<a name="209436623"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436623" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436623">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Alright, so I think the agenda for today is to plan for the sprint?</p>



<a name="209436682"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436682" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436682">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>We had a couple action items from last time</p>



<a name="209436707"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436707" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436707">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Review Chalk upgrade PR (<a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/75173">#75173</a>) (Niko)<br>
Add rustc-chalk integration tracking issue (Jack)<br>
Elaborate on opaque types WF w/ implied bounds (detrumi)<br>
File issue for auto and builtin traits with builtin types (Jack)<br>
Update well known traits table for closures extern types (Jack)<br>
Update skill tree (Niko)</p>



<a name="209436720"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436720" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436720">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Chalk upgrade PR got merged</p>



<a name="209436740"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436740" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436740">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I didn't update the skill tree at all :) I did try to do various chalk reviews though</p>



<a name="209436773"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436773" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436773">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I added a tracking issue (just now), but haven't added details: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-traits/issues/25">https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-traits/issues/25</a></p>



<a name="209436860"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436860" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436860">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I filed issues for the auto and builtin traits</p>



<a name="209436869"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436869" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436869">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Didn't update the table</p>



<a name="209436924"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436924" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436924">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I got too distracted with refactoring <code>lowering.rs</code> (was 2229 lines, my branch currently has it at 1232)</p>



<a name="209436953"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436953" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436953">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>That lowering cleanup was so nice!</p>



<a name="209436975"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209436975" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209436975">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, we now have <code>Foreign</code> in Chalk</p>



<a name="209437011"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437011" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437011">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>did the lowering cleanup land?</p>



<a name="209437035"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437035" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437035">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes</p>



<a name="209437052"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437052" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437052">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>The first part, working on the second part</p>



<a name="209437069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437069">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>We can iterate a little bit more on it, if there are other things to do</p>



<a name="209437088"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437088" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437088">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>But it's already a great start</p>



<a name="209437186"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437186" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437186">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I also said that I was going to start thinking about sprint goals. But I didn't :/</p>



<a name="209437210"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437210" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437210">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>But I do have some ideas</p>



<a name="209437223"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437223" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437223">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Let me make a hackmd</p>



<a name="209437250"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437250" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437250">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://hackmd.io/s1MfBn4bRjyir-aqHZzbKQ">https://hackmd.io/s1MfBn4bRjyir-aqHZzbKQ</a></p>



<a name="209437330"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437330" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437330">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am wondering how many people are around and want to participate in the sprint</p>



<a name="209437351"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437351" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437351">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>That might affect how ambitious we get with goals</p>



<a name="209437354"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437354" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437354">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, that's important to think about</p>



<a name="209437467"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437467" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437467">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, though, before we start talking about the sprint goals themselves, we should think about longer-term, like what needs to be done still</p>



<a name="209437591"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437591" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437591">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right. So, I think that the "north star" we are still shooting for is to get a "true MVP" for rustc-chalk integration</p>



<a name="209437618"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437618" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437618">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>where exactly what "true MVP" means is perhaps worth re-iterating</p>



<a name="209437635"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437635" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437635">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right</p>



<a name="209437701"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437701" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mark Drobnak <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437701">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Unfortunately I'm a little busy with school/projects/new-grad grind, so I won't be too active this sprint :/<br>
Still lurking and following what's up with the project!</p>



<a name="209437735"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437735" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437735">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I <em>think</em> ideally it includes using the same type definition, so that we don't have to map back and forth (though 1:1 mapping might also suffice)</p>



<a name="209437774"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437774" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437774">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Like, at what point do we want to "recommend" that people start "playing" with it, besides just working on the integration itself?</p>



<a name="209437775"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437775" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437775">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I'm shooting for "functional correctness"</p>



<a name="209437785"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437785" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> oliver <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437785">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="218805">Mark Drobnak</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.2009.2E08.2E2020/near/209437701">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Unfortunately I'm a little busy with school/projects/new-grad grind, so I won't be too active this sprint :/<br>
Still lurking and following what's up with the project!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Same just lurking</p>



<a name="209437856"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437856" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437856">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't know if that's at 100% test (rustc) passing</p>



<a name="209437866"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437866" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437866">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>in terms of my own activity level: I would like to participate <em>but</em> my hands are also quite full with other tasks, so I would say that my time for coding will be relatively limited</p>



<a name="209437868"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437868" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437868">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or if it's like 95%</p>



<a name="209437881"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437881" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437881">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's probably not 100%</p>



<a name="209437947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437947">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would say that it's at the point where it's feasible to go through the failing tests though</p>



<a name="209437956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437956">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that we kind of know why they are failing</p>



<a name="209437965"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437965" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437965">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree</p>



<a name="209437967"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437967" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437967">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>we can use a <code>--compare-mode</code> tracker too</p>



<a name="209437990"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209437990" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209437990">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>Was about to say: I think one of the difficult problems right now is that there is just <em>too many</em> failing tests</p>



<a name="209438048"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438048" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Joshua Ani <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438048">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would like to participate but I'm also busy with other stuff</p>



<a name="209438054"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438054" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438054">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Even when you use my variance branch as a base (which is one of the bigger things to tackle), it still is a lot of failing tests</p>



<a name="209438066"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438066" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mark Drobnak <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438066">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Are they failing for many different reasons or common ones? (like not implementing a Rust lang feature)</p>



<a name="209438127"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438127" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438127">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's a difficult question to answer. Like, I haven't gone through the majority of them.</p>



<a name="209438188"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438188" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438188">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think a large part are failing because of associated type ambiguity</p>



<a name="209438219"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438219" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438219">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I haven't tried with the recursive solver</p>



<a name="209438231"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438231" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438231">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>There are some tests that don't finish</p>



<a name="209438244"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438244" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438244">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Some like broken mir problems</p>



<a name="209438248"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438248" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438248">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's tricky</p>



<a name="209438261"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438261" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438261">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>because then you can't run all tests in one go</p>



<a name="209438271"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438271" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438271">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right</p>



<a name="209438330"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438330" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438330">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I started adding some notes into the hackmd</p>



<a name="209438348"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438348" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438348">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the other side of things is continued rust-analyzer usage</p>



<a name="209438354"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438354" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438354">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>so some big problems need to be tackled first then</p>



<a name="209438367"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438367" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438367">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, I think the way to go, is to starting by listing the things we <em>know</em> aren't done and probably have a big impact</p>



<a name="209438380"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438380" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438380">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>ninja'd</p>



<a name="209438492"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438492" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438492">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>The RA side is already ongoing, generators should unlock async in RA soon I think</p>



<a name="209438529"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438529" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438529">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>In terms of this sprint, I'm going to be around, and will have some time to work on smaller things. And I'll continually update the rustc integration. But I can't take on any "new" big projects</p>



<a name="209438567"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438567" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438567">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.2009.2E08.2E2020/near/209438348">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think the other side of things is continued rust-analyzer usage</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah, that was the other thing to mention</p>



<a name="209438588"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438588" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438588">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>Then, of course, the shared type library</p>



<a name="209438718"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438718" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438718">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the shared type library and MVP of rustc-integration are tightly connected</p>



<a name="209438741"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438741" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438741">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm of the opinion that pushing towards shared type library seems like a reasonably practical way to fix a number of rustc bugs (we'll just need a lot less mapping, I suspect that's part of the problems we're seeing)</p>



<a name="209438749"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438749" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438749">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>shared type library should be relatively easy to split into tasks that can be picked up by newer people, I think?</p>



<a name="209438757"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438757" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438757">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Actually, I'm not super familiar on the rust-analyzer side what needs done, other than generators</p>



<a name="209438768"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438768" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438768">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I think so, and I wonder if that is something we should make a big push for this sprint</p>



<a name="209438784"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438784" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438784">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I agree that rust-analyzer is less clear, it'd be good to get feedback from <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="129457">@Florian Diebold</span> on this point</p>



<a name="209438812"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438812" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438812">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I still want to pursue e.g. the deeper integration with salsa, but not sure that's on the table for this sprint</p>



<a name="209438836"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438836" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438836">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>It's mostly that once we implement stuff like generators, the RA integration can be updated to make use of new functionality</p>



<a name="209438856"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438856" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438856">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think we need  to do that much there, since that'll follow from the work integrating with rustc</p>



<a name="209438924"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209438924" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209438924">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, for shared type library, there are some smaller things (like the <code>kind</code> -&gt; <code>kind()</code> refactor) that are easy or new people to pick up. But then there a number of larger issues (<code>Param</code>, late-bound vars, region handling) that aren't easy</p>



<a name="209439007"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439007" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439007">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there is still enough "low hanging" fruit though</p>



<a name="209439023"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439023" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439023">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I agree that the binders are the hardest bit</p>



<a name="209439062"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439062" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439062">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>there is stuff like "renaming type fold to type map", for example</p>



<a name="209439087"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439087" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439087">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right</p>



<a name="209439116"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439116" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439116">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>not to mention trying to unify the two folders</p>



<a name="209439163"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439163" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439163">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>more generally</p>



<a name="209439174"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439174" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439174">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>(e.g., chalk's folder returns a <code>Result</code>...)</p>



<a name="209439208"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439208" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mark Drobnak <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439208">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>&lt;sidenote&gt;<br>
Kind of random, but this group might be interested in the LALRPOP IntelliJ plugin I recently started working on:<br>
<a href="https://github.com/Mcat12/intellij-lalrpop">https://github.com/Mcat12/intellij-lalrpop</a></p>
<p>Might make it easier to work on the Chalk testing framework.<br>
&lt;/sidenote&gt;</p>



<a name="209439233"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439233" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439233">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, so maybe or this sprint, it's worth enumerating some of the easier things to do for the shared type library</p>



<a name="209439324"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439324" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439324">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>the <code>kind</code> -&gt; <code>kind()</code> is kind of done, right?</p>



<a name="209439342"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439342" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439342">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes</p>



<a name="209439397"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439397" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439397">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Unless we want to return by value, instead of ref</p>



<a name="209439413"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439413" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439413">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/75077">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/75077</a> merged ( <span aria-label="tada" class="emoji emoji-1f389" role="img" title="tada">:tada:</span> <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="255061">@LeSeulArtichaut</span>)</p>



<a name="209439418"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439418" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439418">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>But I don't know if that was decided to definitely not</p>



<a name="209439449"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439449" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439449">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, that's a possible follow up</p>



<a name="209439458"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439458" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439458">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>And there is <code>kind()</code> -&gt; <code>kind(tcx)</code></p>



<a name="209439462"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439462" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439462">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right, <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/fn.20kind%28%29.20-.3E.20TypeKind.20or.20-.3E.20.26TypeKind/near/208444172">this topic</a> on the value/ref thing</p>



<a name="209439599"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439599" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439599">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, there are few smaller things to be done on the rustc side for the shared type library</p>



<a name="209439604"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439604" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439604">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>So... the <code>kind() -&gt; kind(tcx)</code> change...</p>



<a name="209439618"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439618" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439618">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>isn't <em>strictly</em> necessary I suppose</p>



<a name="209439619"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439619" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439619">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anything on the chalk side?</p>



<a name="209439637"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439637" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lcnr <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439637">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p><em>I think by value would be a noticeable improvement</em></p>



<a name="209439698"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439698" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439698">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="216206">@lcnr</span> ergonomics, perf, or both?</p>



<a name="209439716"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439716" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lcnr <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439716">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>ergonomics mostly</p>



<a name="209439740"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439740" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> lcnr <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439740">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>it might slightly improve perf but not by much I think</p>



<a name="209439753"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439753" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439753">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have to follow up more with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="255061">@LeSeulArtichaut</span> to see what the problem was they ran into and whether it can be easily circumvented. I understood their comment but I already forgot.</p>



<a name="209439758"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439758" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439758">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08/near/209439618">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>isn't <em>strictly</em> necessary I suppose</p>
</blockquote>
<p>If we start assuming that the <code>Ty</code> itself holds all the information, then no</p>



<a name="209439789"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439789" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439789">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>so re: <code>kind(tcx)</code> what I mean is</p>



<a name="209439807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439807">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's needed for the generic case so that rust-analyzer works etc</p>



<a name="209439822"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439822" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439822">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>but we could certainly have an "optional" trait that supports <code>kind</code> with no argument</p>



<a name="209439828"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439828" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439828">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>which chalk wouldn't use</p>



<a name="209439849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439849">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>but which rustc can implement</p>



<a name="209439870"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439870" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439870">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>something like <code>trait NoContextInterner: Interner</code></p>



<a name="209439924"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439924" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439924">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>and then <code>fn kind() -&gt; Self::Kind where I: NoContextInterner</code></p>



<a name="209439942"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439942" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439942">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>the goal being just to avoid tons of churn in rustc</p>



<a name="209439959"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209439959" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209439959">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>and focus on the more important things</p>



<a name="209440009"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440009" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440009">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah, interesting. Haven't thought about that</p>



<a name="209440014"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440014" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440014">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>speaking of super important things, chalk calls it "data" and rustc calls it "kind"</p>



<a name="209440033"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440033" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440033">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems like we should use on term :)</p>



<a name="209440076"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440076" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440076">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the other thing is integrating the flags into chalk</p>



<a name="209440088"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440088" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440088">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>Indeed, that's one of the points on the tracking issue</p>



<a name="209440101"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440101" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Mark Drobnak <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440101">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>"kind" seems like it would be more of an enum signaling the kind of data, not the data itself?</p>



<a name="209440170"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440170" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440170">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>might cause some churn on the chalk/RA integration side, but that's easier to change than rustc to be sure</p>



<a name="209440171"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440171" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440171">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>Flags are <em>not</em> in the tracking issue, but should be</p>



<a name="209440216"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440216" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440216">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm adding it to the "chalk work items" list</p>



<a name="209440267"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440267" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440267">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have to look more at how flags are done in rustc</p>



<a name="209440268"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440268" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440268">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125131">detrumi</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08/near/209440170">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>might cause some churn on the chalk/RA integration side, but that's easier to change than rustc to be sure</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah I've been somewhat inclined to just adopt the rustc terminology for the sake of ease</p>



<a name="209440322"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440322" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440322">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>re: flags, basically, there are some flags per interned type, and they indicate some hints about what lies within</p>



<a name="209440324"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440324" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440324">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that's the direction we've been headed in</p>



<a name="209440384"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440384" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440384">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>so maybe we should just make a chalk work item for "rename from data to kind"--</p>



<a name="209440403"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440403" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440403">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>it doesn't fit maybe quite as well for all the things</p>



<a name="209440406"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440406" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440406">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>Like the recent <code>Foreign</code> vs <code>Extern</code></p>



<a name="209440463"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440463" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440463">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>that was slightly confusing</p>



<a name="209440494"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440494" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440494">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08/near/209440403">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>it doesn't fit maybe quite as well for all the things</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I guess that's an argument for <code>data</code> over <code>kind</code></p>



<a name="209440527"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440527" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440527">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm thinking of cases like <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/chalk/chalk_ir/interner/trait.Interner.html#tymethod.substitution_data"><code>substitution_data</code></a></p>



<a name="209440539"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440539" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440539">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right</p>



<a name="209440552"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440552" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440552">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>or <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/chalk/chalk_ir/interner/trait.Interner.html#tymethod.program_clauses_data"><code>program_clauses_data</code></a></p>



<a name="209440593"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440593" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440593">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>that pushes me mildly towards moving away from <code>kind</code> and towards <code>data</code> on rustc side</p>



<a name="209440645"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440645" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440645">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>though dang what a refactor :)</p>



<a name="209440648"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440648" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440648">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>So...should we poll <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="492">@T-compiler</span> and see how people feel about <code>kind</code>-&gt;<code>data</code></p>



<a name="209440662"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440662" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440662">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>ninja'd again</p>



<a name="209440670"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440670" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440670">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems like an MCP might be a way to kick off the discussion</p>



<a name="209440683"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440683" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440683">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>Indeed</p>



<a name="209440716"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440716" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440716">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>the other option would be to have two distinct terms, one for the "kind" of a singular thing, and one for the "slice" or "elements" of a list</p>



<a name="209440760"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440760" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440760">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>which reminds me, if we're going to map all the rustc types, there is probably more work to be done beyond just <code>Ty</code>.. :)</p>



<a name="209440780"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440780" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440780">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>What do you mean?</p>



<a name="209440805"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440805" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440805">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, a point to bring up: <code>GenericArg</code></p>



<a name="209440827"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440827" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440827">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>well e.g. most obviously we have <code>ty::Region&lt;'tcx&gt;</code> vs chalk's <code>Lifetime&lt;I&gt;</code></p>



<a name="209440882"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440882" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440882">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>Oh, naming</p>



<a name="209440887"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440887" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440887">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't just mean the name</p>



<a name="209440890"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440890" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440890">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>but also the name</p>



<a name="209440908"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440908" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440908">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mean that we have <code>type Region = &amp;RegionKind</code></p>



<a name="209440920"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440920" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440920">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>which means people write <code>match *r { .. }</code></p>



<a name="209440936"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440936" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440936">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>but we want them to write <code>match r.kind(tcx) { }</code></p>



<a name="209440947"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440947" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440947">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>or <code>r.data(tcx)</code>, depending :)</p>



<a name="209440959"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209440959" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209440959">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08/near/209440805">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Well, a point to bring up: <code>GenericArg</code></p>
</blockquote>
<p>In rustc, this is packed, and unpack gives you a value; in chalk, you get a ref</p>



<a name="209441028"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441028" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441028">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh, hmm</p>



<a name="209441035"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441035" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441035">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, similar with <code>Ty</code>: it's <code>type Ty&lt;'tcx&gt; = &amp;'tcx TyS</code></p>



<a name="209441045"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441045" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441045">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me wonders why he thought that was ok</p>



<a name="209441063"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441063" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441063">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:37)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08/near/209441035">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Yeah, similar with <code>Ty</code>: it's <code>type Ty&lt;'tcx&gt; = &amp;'tcx TyS</code></p>
</blockquote>
<p>well, that's ok</p>



<a name="209441069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441069">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>or at least more ok</p>



<a name="209441113"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441113" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441113">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>because <code>TyS</code> is kind of an opaque type</p>



<a name="209441133"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441133" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441133">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>we do have to account for all of its various methods in the end though</p>



<a name="209441168"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441168" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441168">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right, true. <code>TyS</code> is a bit different than <code>RegionKind</code></p>



<a name="209441178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441178">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess maybe we need an indirection for <code>RegionKind</code></p>



<a name="209441183"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441183" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441183">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>Which...eh</p>



<a name="209441187"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441187" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441187">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically I'm saying that there is a PR that is the equivalent of converting <code>match ty.kind {</code> to <code>ty.kind()</code> but for regions</p>



<a name="209441241"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441241" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441241">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess you're right that I'm not 100% sure what that looks like, anyway , I noted it down</p>



<a name="209441257"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441257" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441257">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ok, so, we're 40 minutes in</p>



<a name="209441272"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441272" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441272">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I'm not sure btw which name I prefer :) coming from polonius I hope we eventually adopt <em>origin</em> instead of both region and lifetime, but that's neither here nor there)</p>



<a name="209441278"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441278" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441278">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Is this helpful to keep going through these details?</p>



<a name="209441353"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441353" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441353">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or, should we think about other sprint goals</p>



<a name="209441380"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441380" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441380">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was wondering about that :) I think it was  fairly helpful in bringing that context back to mind</p>



<a name="209441393"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441393" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441393">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>but we've peeled off a lot of work items</p>



<a name="209441403"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441403" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441403">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right</p>



<a name="209441445"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441445" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441445">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I wonder if we can come up with a good "metric" or "overall goal" that we can strive for</p>



<a name="209441454"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441454" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441454">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>Or if it's just really work items</p>



<a name="209441472"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441472" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441472">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>Like, I think the goal of "chalk and rustc share the same type library" is infeasible this sprint</p>



<a name="209441478"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441478" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441478">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>goal for the sprint you mean?</p>



<a name="209441483"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441483" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441483">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="209441502"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441502" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jubilee <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441502">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>documented posted issues are good if you're hoping for new people. :^)</p>



<a name="209441517"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441517" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441517">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing might be "name alignment" between rustc/chalk</p>



<a name="209441598"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441598" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441598">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>at the end of the sprint, it will probably be clear what the library will look like</p>



<a name="209441599"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441599" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441599">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah</p>



<a name="209441633"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441633" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441633">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, agreed re: issues, we're kind of figuring out what the crop of issues that we plan to create are :) but the master tracking issue for this work is <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-traits/issues/16">rust-lang/wg-traits#16</a></p>



<a name="209441650"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441650" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441650">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>I mean, if we can get someone (maybe me, maybe not) to push the <code>Param</code> work through, we could basically get all the types and names the same</p>



<a name="209441732"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441732" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441732">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyways, let's think about this async</p>



<a name="209441763"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441763" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441763">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>And focus the last 15 minutes on other potential sprint goals</p>



<a name="209441767"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441767" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441767">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>yep, this was good enough, let's turn a bit</p>



<a name="209441839"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441839" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441839">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>so you have the variance work <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232957">@Jack Huey</span> and I think a clear goal should be to land that</p>



<a name="209441860"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441860" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441860">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, the big thing with the rest of the things on my mind, is I would really like <em>someone</em> committed to each</p>



<a name="209441902"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441902" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441902">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>The variances work <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="271698">@Super Tuple</span> and <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="218710">@David Ross</span> are working on, but I haven't heard from them in a couple weeks</p>



<a name="209441935"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441935" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441935">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think if we can get some tests for them, that's probably easily finished</p>



<a name="209441959"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209441959" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209441959">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>(by easily, I mean timewise by sprint end)</p>



<a name="209442009"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442009" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442009">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>The placeholder canonicalization, also I think is "close to done", but <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="251766">@Areredify</span> did a lot of the work there</p>



<a name="209442034"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442034" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442034">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't know if they're around</p>



<a name="209442136"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442136" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442136">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>Then the last "Chalk" thing I can think of, is adding <code>'static</code></p>



<a name="209442149"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442149" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442149">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>Which shouldn't be too bad</p>



<a name="209442179"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442179" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442179">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:47)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08/near/209441935">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think if we can get some tests for them, that's probably easily finished</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think I can commit to that, but it would probably be next week</p>



<a name="209442313"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442313" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442313">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>On the rustc side, the three big things are <code>Param</code> changes, region handling (don't know how much is rustc, and how much is adding variants in chalk), and the late-bound variables</p>



<a name="209442348"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442348" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442348">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we should focus on the late-bound maybe</p>



<a name="209442376"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442376" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442376">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right, so, for that:</p>



<a name="209442380"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442380" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442380">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>well i'm not sure which but those are all big :)</p>



<a name="209442390"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442390" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442390">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I'd like to focus on one</p>



<a name="209442423"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442423" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442423">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>For late-bound regions, I think the path is fairly straightforward</p>



<a name="209442452"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442452" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442452">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>First, we'll have to start tracking the number of late-bound regions</p>



<a name="209442471"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442471" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442471">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>Which, I think is the biggest hurdle for making sure perf doesn't suffer</p>



<a name="209442496"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442496" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442496">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I think it's relatively straight forwrard too</p>



<a name="209442541"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442541" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442541">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>this is why I mentioned it</p>



<a name="209442558"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442558" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442558">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>Second, is a bit more unclear.</p>



<a name="209442560"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442560" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442560">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is, there are some big questions to answer, but the questions seem better scoped</p>



<a name="209442606"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442606" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442606">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>But you could imagine we change all regions to be "late-bound", or "tracked" by <code>Binder</code></p>



<a name="209442683"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442683" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442683">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, I don't quite remember. Where does <code>Binder</code> bind types</p>



<a name="209442695"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442695" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442695">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>it doesn't</p>



<a name="209442716"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442716" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442716">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm</p>



<a name="209442741"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442741" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442741">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>this is one of the <em>nice</em> things about rustc's approach, or at least quirks :)</p>



<a name="209442773"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442773" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442773">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is, there is no central list of the bound things,</p>



<a name="209442781"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442781" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442781">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>(The documentation says "Binder is a binder for higher-ranked lifetimes <em>or types.</em>")</p>



<a name="209442788"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442788" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442788">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>so each one of them kind of tells you what its kind is when you find it</p>



<a name="209442808"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442808" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442808">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., if you see a <code>TyBound(DebruijnIndex)</code>, it is a type variable</p>



<a name="209442874"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442874" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442874">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I got lost</p>



<a name="209442879"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442879" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442879">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/nightly-rustc/rustc_middle/ty/enum.TyKind.html#variant.Bound"><code>TyKind::Bound</code></a></p>



<a name="209442897"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442897" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442897">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>so basically imagine that you have <code>forall&lt;T, 'a&gt; { ... }</code>in chalk</p>



<a name="209442910"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442910" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442910">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>in chalk there is a list <code>[Ty, Lifetime]</code> for the kinds of things in that binder</p>



<a name="209442911"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442911" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442911">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>But, are those always enclosed in a <code>Binder</code>?</p>



<a name="209442932"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442932" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442932">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that is associated with the binder itself</p>



<a name="209442983"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209442983" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209442983">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>but in rustc, you just have "binder", and to know that it binds a type and a lifetime, you have to walk the <code>...</code> and look for what is mentioned there</p>



<a name="209443007"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443007" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443007">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>so e.g. <code>forall&lt;T, 'a&gt; { T: 'a }</code> might have <code>Binder { Ty::Bound(0, T): Region::Bound(0, 'a) }</code></p>



<a name="209443024"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443024" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443024">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>now I can see that it binds one type and one region, but I have to search</p>



<a name="209443048"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443048" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443048">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>this doesn't work so well if you have an unused variable, as an aside, which will probalby lead us to some annoying backwards compatibility quirks</p>



<a name="209443070"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443070" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443070">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>e.g., rustc has no way to represent <code>for&lt;'b&gt; { T: 'a }</code> (where <code>'b</code> is not used)</p>



<a name="209443092"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443092" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443092">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I tried changing Chalk to not track bound vars in <code>Binders</code></p>



<a name="209443104"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443104" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443104">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't remember how far I got</p>



<a name="209443125"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443125" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443125">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>(when that code was written, binders <em>only</em> tracked regions, but we extended it to track types at some point)</p>



<a name="209443163"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443163" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443163">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think this is only used in limited places though</p>



<a name="209443172"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443172" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443172">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I have to  start wrapping up)</p>



<a name="209443197"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443197" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443197">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>it seems to me that our focus will be on shared type library this sprint</p>



<a name="209443198"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443198" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443198">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right, so last 4 minutes</p>



<a name="209443216"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443216" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443216">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>and wrapping up some rustc-integration items</p>



<a name="209443284"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443284" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443284">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Lots of design work left, but I think there are some first steps that are clear?</p>



<a name="209443306"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443306" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443306">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>So there should be some tickets for those</p>



<a name="209443312"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443312" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443312">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think three "big" goals:<br>
1) shared type library work<br>
2) Variances<br>
3) Late-bound regions in rustc refactoring (if somebody can pick it up)</p>



<a name="209443417"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443417" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443417">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>In terms of timing, are we still doing 6 weeks?</p>



<a name="209443425"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443425" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443425">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>And are we starting <em>today</em></p>



<a name="209443474"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443474" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443474">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not going to have much more time this week</p>



<a name="209443498"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443498" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443498">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>so we could plan to start next week and use this week at most to prepare some tasks and items</p>



<a name="209443508"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443508" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443508">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>we could also wait one more week before starting to get a bit more organized</p>



<a name="209443510"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443510" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443510">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>ninja'd</p>



<a name="209443511"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443511" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443511">(Sep 08 2020 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Works for me :)</p>



<a name="209443628"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443628" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443628">(Sep 08 2020 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ok so, 9/15-10/27</p>



<a name="209443687"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443687" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443687">(Sep 08 2020 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, then that is meeting end :)</p>



<a name="209443708"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443708" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443708">(Sep 08 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Thanks everyone for coming!</p>



<a name="209443988"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209443988" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209443988">(Sep 08 2020 at 21:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Thanks <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232957">@Jack Huey</span> !</p>



<a name="209480269"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202020-09-08/near/209480269" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Léo Lanteri Thauvin <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202020-09-08.html#209480269">(Sep 09 2020 at 07:42)</a>:</h4>
<blockquote>
<p>though dang what a refactor :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’m up for the challenge 😁<br>
I can probably take the time to do the kind -&gt; data transition. ty.kind -&gt; ty.kind() warmed me up :)</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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